Check out the Nomad Jukebox Zen. Pretty neat looking harddrive mp3 player. Small like an iPod -- just a bit bigger than the iPod, but still pretty small. Cheap too -- with the mail-in rebate the 20GB is $299 whereas the 20GB iPod is $499. Yow! An it is nice that it has both a USB and Firewire port. Too bad one has to use the Creative PlayCenter 3 software in order to manage the music. At least with the Archos I can use any computer and copy the music as files. And iTunes 3 is a pretty darn good package for managing music. PlayCenter is not that great of software.